Playing With Fire


I’ve been wanting to address this concern for a while, and am thankful to finally have this opportunity. Many of you know I was in the Word of Faith movement for over a decade. I spent that time in primarily Pentecostal leaning non-denominational churches. I have been greatly encouraged by the amount of material I’ve read in varies blogs exposing the Prosperity Gospels heretical teaching here on WordPress, like our sister in Christ Nikki does in her blog. There’s one point I want to add, and it’s the danger for the youth involved in this movement.

I can only speak to my personal experiences within the southern United States. I have no idea if this is a southern phenomenon, but my fear is that it is related to the movement in general and not a geographical region. I want to preface this with what I saw at church camp as a teenager.


Flashing lights, fog machines, methodical music, emotional speaking and the general drumming up of a thousand children in a big auditorium. This resulted, as the event planners had hoped, in drunkenness in the ‘spirit’, with wild manifestations of tongues which included laughter, crying, and belligerent screaming. These are youths from 10 up to 18, who were being taught how to be ‘slain in the spirit’. I can remember one night during that week of ‘church’ camp praying at the alter to be given the ‘spirit’ for so long that my legs went numb. 

This video gives you a better look at what we’re seeing here in modern WoF churches.

Now these children go home from camp expecting daily increases of this ‘spiritual’ gifting. However, what they find is that without the phycological manipulation they are unable to get whipped up in the same kind of frenzy. So, in a culture where ghost hunting shows are a dime a dozen, they turn to the occult. This is the warning I want to give you, brethren. There were multiple groups of youth I knew who turned to occultism, it ties in easily with the WoF movement, so they would be out all night Friday and Saturday looking for demons, and in church on Sunday bored to tears. We lived, as youth, looking for the next great manifestation of the ‘spirit’. This explains why Bethel is having such success recruiting young people to their ‘school’. 

If you want to see more on this, here is a clip from the Strange Fire Conference…

This is very dangerous for the young people in church. Please, if you’re a parent to a young child or youth member, monitor what they’re watching or listening to. Don’t assume because it is a ‘Christian’ band, or church video that it’s safe for them. The wolves are not lurking outside our churches, they’re boldly standing within. As always, beloved, be good Bereans and study to show yourselves approved.

Author: lnhereford

I am a Christian, wife, mother, podcaster and homeschooler currently traveling the United States with my loving husband and darling daughter!

27 thoughts on “Playing With Fire”

  1. Thanks for this post, sister. I have no personal experience with the charismatic/Pentecostal movements generally or the WoF/prosperity movements specifically other than briefly watching the purveyors on TBN. I tread lightly when it comes to charismatic/Pentecostal belief in the apostolic gifts for today, because I know so many here believe in them. I’m definitely a cessationist like JMac and I’ve read both his “Charismatic Chaos” and “Strange Fire.” All of the behaviors shown on the videos are very disturbing to me. As you know, the charismatic movement made great inroads into the Catholic church and they say there are around 160 million Catholic charismatics. This provides a great bridge to evangelical charismatics and Pentecostals. Disagreements over doctrine are laid aside because both groups share the same emotional and physical experiences. The Bethel and IHOP guys (as well as Copeland, Laurie, Robison, etc.) embrace Catholicism completely. Looking forward to hearing more from you about your experiences.

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    1. I so appreciate you pointing out the Catholic charismatics, brother. That’s where the false gospels you and I were called out of intersect. Really though, once you’ve decided against Sola Scriptura there’s no end to the inerrant doctrines you can accept. It makes a lot of sense for the WoF and RCC to embrace one another, as they both teach inclusiveness. It’s also interesting to see that both groups use to be exclusive, and claimed their church was the only way to salvation.
      I totally agree with you, I’m also a cessationist, that is one doctrine that certainly helped clear up a lot of confusion for me. That was never something that was addressed in the church I was in, it was just understood that the giftings never ceased they just changed. If you questioned it, whew you were in for it! I’m saddened to see so many relying on their emotional experiences, the heart is the most deceptive member of the body!

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      1. Glad we can discuss these “meatier” issues openly – many tiptoe around them. My WoF sister-in-law and I were discussing Sarah Young’s Jesus Calling books and she couldn’t believe I wasn’t on board with extra-biblical revelation. It’s just the way it is in her world.

        Being totally carried away by an ecstatic emotional experience is so foreign to me. But as you say, people must be taught. The closest I ever came to something like that besides drinking too much alcohol was when I dabbled in transcendental meditation before I accepted Christ. Quite an interesting technique, although spiritually dangerous I’m sure. Thirty-five years later, if I talk about it with someone, even briefly, my brain triggers the physical response. It’s like riding a bike. Probably many similarities to learning the charismatic/Pentecostal gifts of the spirit -speaking in glossolalia and being slain in the spirit. Once the neurons get mapped, it’s easy.

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      2. Ugh that’s the worst part, the very idea that revelation is continuing today opens people up to any wind of doctrine. You can claim any teaching you want to claim and call it ‘inspired’. So many see no harm in Sarah Young’s books, and maybe she isn’t selling ‘koolaid’ but it’s the ends that frighten me, not the beginning. That’s really why I wrote this post, as a warning. When you teach children that any new revelation should be listened to and obeyed, then they see all this hyper spirituality going on in occultism and it seems like the next step in progression. It might start with a word here, or prophecy there, but it always ends with complete depravity. That’s why God set boundaries for us, and they’re clear as day in His Word for all to read.

        I was never able to be moved by whatever spirit was moving the other folks in our church, even though I was told to ‘fake it till I make it’. I’m not sure how it feels from personal experience, but the descriptions I’ve been told by many that it’s an addictive feeling. They want more, and more…so alcohol might be a good expanse! They’ve actually even made transcendental meditation into a ‘Christian’ belief, along with a lot of other similar things, as apart of their big push to include everyone. I think you hit the nail on the head with the neurons mapping things out.

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      3. RE: even though I was told to ‘fake it till I make it’

        I can imagine the pressure to conform and to also display these manifestations is INTENSE within these churches. And if you don’t manifest them, you are made to feel like a 2nd-class Christian or no Christian at all.

        As for personal revelation – certainly all believers walking with the Lord experience Him working in their lives, opening up Scripture, leading them this way or that on some particular issues, but receiving personal “thus saith the Lord” is not for today. Yes, Catholicism also has many who claim revelation from Mary or Jesus.

        Looking forward to more of your WoF experiences, although doing so is not politically correct in today’s Christian culture, same as my postings on the RCC, but there are souls out there who need to hear your message.

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      4. Ironically, before conversion I was very confrontational (my poor husband, he deserves a medal for staying with me!) and I loved to argue with anyone over anything. Probably the number one difference outwardly has been this difficult personality trait changing. So now I need to be able to confront this false doctrine, but wish I didn’t have to. It helps, of course, which is Gods providence, that I care more about the souls then winning an argument. Funny how that works itself out! I’m sure there are many days when you are not looking forward to the confrontations with Catholics here on WP or anywhere else. It’s worth it if we win over a single brother or sister. But I still look forward to heaven, when the confrontation can stop.

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      5. Yes, I could write a long post about the discussions I’ve had with Catholics the last two years. Some are just looking for an endless intellectual debate, but I need to be a good steward of my time and energies. I’ve arbitrarily ended some discussions and even blocked some incessant debaters.

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      6. I’m trying to learning when to draw the line and end discussions, especially with those like you mentioned who just want to endlessly debate. How do you make that decision, is it case by case?

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      7. I really don’t have any clear cut advice on this one other than, yes, it’s a case by case decision as the Spirit moves you. I’ve had multiple exchanges with the same person regarding the same questions, so I just reach a point where I stop the discussion and pray for them. Kind of like shaking the dust off my feet. I’ve said all I can say and to continue the discussion is being a poor steward. I’m prepared for some back and forth if people have questions, but as you said, debate takes a toll on time and emotions. I’d much rather focus on getting the message out there than getting tied up with someone who enjoys debating for debate’s sake and who is not really searching. When I reach that point, I just delete their incoming comments because I don’t want my blog used as a Catholic apologetics soapbox, there’s already plenty out there. As I said, I have ended up blocking some people because the comments just keep coming. That’s how I respond, but each believer blogger is going to do it differently. Some might think blocking someone or deleting their comments to be uncharitable, but the Bible directs us to not to carry on too long with scoffers and debaters.

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  2. I believe in the TRUE AUTHENTIC gifts of the Spirit displayed in the Bible – anything di signed to counterfeit those would of course be coming from the antichrist. He never has an original thought, he is constantly lurking around Christianity copy chatting what God does. Good post though, we must ALWAYS be vigilant.

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    1. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate your opinion. I think the point I differ from those in the charismatic community is the separation from gifts of the Spirit, and the specific gifts given to authenticate the message of the Apostles. That’s not to say that God does not still miraculously heal, but that there is no longer Apostolic gifts of healing like we see in the beginning of Acts, and missing by the end of Acts. The danger certainly comes from the extra biblical revelations, though, when someone can claim they’ve heard from God and convince their followers to do whatever they say. We see this in the Mormon, Jehovahs Witness, and similar faiths. Which is why, as you’ve rightly pointed, we should always be vigilant.

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      1. We do differ there, I believe that God is just as powerful today as he was then. As the Bible says Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow! It also says there is nothing new under the sun! Which says that what was is exactly what is – forever. It’s a matter of seek and ye shall find – if you do not seek these things you will not find them – that’s a Biblical truth!

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  3. I agree, God is just as powerful today and the same today as He was before. However, I think if you look logically at the OT you don’t see the same outpouring of gifting as you see in the NT. So while His power remains the same, the gifts He gives appear to differ depending on His sovereign purpose at hand. When we do see big miracles in the OT it’s usually during a time when Gods Word is being written, like with Moses. These are also biblical truths, which is why I constantly exhort believers to take the full counsel of Gods Word. It’s also important to note that historically within the church over the last two thousand years the wild manifestations we’ve seen in the last hundred years are the exception not the rule. Those two evidences were enough to make me skeptical of any who suggest God is moving today as He did during the Apostles.

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  4. Good stuff here. I’ve never been exposed to hardcore charismatic stuff. My only experience really was one visit to an Assembly of God church where some guy spoke in tongues. I was just amused really, as I was quite heathen at the time and thought any external evidence of faith was moronic. In our work, we are quite cessasionist, and I am behind that. We are so dry in fact, that if a fly comes by one has to kill it with only one hand, lest another think you are clapping LOL. I actually have concerns about how far we take it sometimes, as we are so fearful of charismatic things that we almost act as if the Holy Spirit has died and no longer working among us.

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    1. Thank you brother, I had a very similar feeling towards the charismatic manifestation when I was younger. The longer I stayed in the church there the more I was looked down on for not participating, the more I felt like maybe there was something wrong with me. Oh boy, I laughed out loud over the fly joke! That’s hilarious. There’s definitely extremes, for some reason as human beings we like to stay on one side or the other of those extremes. I’m actually working on a post about that for next Friday. I am so concerned about that movement that I feel like I approach everyone with two questions ‘are you saved by grace through faith in Christ alone? Are you charismatic?’

      I can understand the spiritual concern, especially in light of the extremes IHOP and Bethel take it. My concern has always been those who are deceived by these experiences into believing they’ve been saved. I spent over a decade in the movement without ever hearing the Gospel preached. It wasn’t until someone sent me a Paul Washer video that I heard it for the first time. Even though I know it was a miraculous act of God to change me into a new creation, I still cringe inside when I hear someone start talking about the Holy Spirit moving. It’s some sort of balance I haven’t found yet!

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      1. Well, your concerns are very valid. Sadly, many have tied the presence of Charismatic gift to salvation, which we know is by faith through grace alone. On the other hand, it might be the opposite problem if we ask a person “are you saved,” and “are you charismatic.” Because certainly being a charismatic believer(since the definition of that is very wide) certainly is not a dis qualifier in regards to salvation. The Holy Spirit is alive, well, and moving today. He is God after all, and we don’t need to fear His movement, we just need to remember He always moves in accordance with what God the Father has shared in His Word.

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      2. Thank you for those wise words, I’m going to copy that last sentence down as a reminder. I can’t put a number on how many times I’ve been blessed here on WP with good counsel from brothers and sisters in Christ! We travel full time, although we have a home church with a very level headed pastor, I’m not always able to speak with elders about my concerns.

        What verses would you recommend when it comes to the movement of God the Father in regards to the Holy Spirit?

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      3. Well, that’s a tough question LOL, as it’s talked about soooooooooooo much. In fact, the charismatic movement has many that some would say support full exercise of all spiritual gifts. Just a couple that might help you not be so nervous about it come to mind. Ephesians 5:18 comes to mind quickly “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” Paul was speaking to saved believers here, who I am sure we both agree were fully indwelt by the Holy Spirit when they were saved. Why then, would he say to be filled? I would suggest that perhaps, even though we are forever indwelt by the Spirit at conversion, we can be “filled.” by Him in different ways at different times. To counterbalance this I would suggest 1 Thessalonians 5:19 where we are told “Quench not the spirit.” I think those might suggest that, even though we have ALL of the Holy Spirit upon salvation, that He could manifest Himself either more or less at different times, in part based on our own actions. I think Ephesians 4:30 sort of sums it up some “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” There we are, fully indwelt by Him, yet we can grieve Him. I am sure there is much more, but that jumps to mind right off the bat. I will use a real life example maybe. I remember the first time I ever witnessed to a stranger. I was at work, at a fellow’s house. He let me know in conversation that he had cancer. Whoa, right? Obviously, me witnessing at work, in a man’s house is problematic; in fact, I could have been fired. Yet, I could not get past the idea that I had to. No matter how hard I tried to avoid it, the “speaking” of the Spirit, while not audible, was as clear in my mind as if it was. In fact, it was clear the guidance was “Just spit it out, up front and directly.” So I did. I quote myself: “Look you have told me you have cancer. You might not be ok. If you aren’t ok, do you know what will happen to you?” Turns out the guy was quite saved and knew exactly what would happen. He appreciated me asking though. Part two of the story was when I got to church Saturday and was telling one of our older members about it because I was just so excited. The instant I said “The Spirit told me,” he shut me off. Told me the Spirit never tells us anything unless it’s in The Bible. I suspect the Spirit was both grieved and quenched in that moment.

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      4. Wow, thank you brother, for the verses and the real life example. I have wondered about that, I often feel an urgency about sharing the Gospel with the lost. Then I hear someone say, like you’re church friend, that the Holy Spirit doesn’t move like that. Then I hear someone else, like maybe Paul Washer, say He does move like that. Not audible, of course, but in the strengthening of our courage to ‘spit it out’. I appreciate you answering my question so well! I hate to always be asking questions, but there’s so many questions and so few people to ask.

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  5. This stuff really freaks me out. It just feels so demonic to me. I was raised in a church of God Holiness movement where there was the moving of the Holy Spirit in alot of their services. But it was different. It had a Holy feel to it. I remember people walking the church with their hands raised praising God and crying during song worship. And praising God during the preaching of the word. No tongues though. I remember the preachers were powerful speakers. It felt they preached the power of God right down through the ceiling onto the church body. Or at least that’s how I remember it feeling like. Its been years since I’ve heard good old fashioned God ordained preaching like that. Anyway, thank you for the post. It was really eye opening. God bless.

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    1. That sounds a lot like the descriptions I’ve read about Whitefield’s preaching, I’d love to sit under preaching like that! I heard the other day that Thomas Jefferson himself didn’t believe the reports coming over from England about Whitefield, how ten thousand could hear him speaking. So Jefferson did an experiment, he started out in the audience and walked until he couldn’t hear old Whitefield. He did some math based on how many people could stand within the radius and was shocked to find that his voice really could carry far enough for ten thousand to hear! That’s a beautiful, God given, auditory gift we don’t see much of these days.

      I agree with you, what’s happening in this movement is very demonic, which is what grieves me the most. These people, who are deceived, give credit to the Holy Spirit for what a demon is doing. Then they blame Satan for the conviction of sin the Holy Spirit is actually doing. I can remember so many times being told that I should never feel convicted of sin. But I was an unsaved sinner, guilty of breaking all the Laws of God Almighty. Had I died before God saw fit, in His unfathomable mercy, to call me out I would have stood before His thrown condemned. I should have been convicted, there is no more condemnation for those in Christ but I wasn’t in Christ. This is a great deception within this movement, the doctrine of demons, that to be saved you just need to ‘have faith in your faith’. Say a quick prayer and you’re in. I must have repeated that prayer a thousand times, it never saved me. I thought that prayer meant I could save myself! It took the sovereignty of God through His grace alone to change my stone cold heart into one of flesh.

      I appreciate your kind words, God bless you friend!

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      1. Yes, It was a wonderful time in my life to experience such Godly preaching and teaching. I was young, but its a time I’ll never forget. It definitely taught me a standard to be aware of. Praise the Lord He got you out of that mess and put you on the right path. My heart breaks for all the young people being deceived by the devil. If only they knew what they were really missing. God bless you sister,

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